problems seeing photos?

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problems seeing photos?

Postby Hank Zumach » Mar 19, 2007 9:17 am

Renaldo mentioned that he occasionally has problems being able to see jpeg photos here at Hallson. If that is a problem for anyone, I could add you to a list of private individuals that recieve my Pic of the Day series. Send me a private message with you address and I'll add it to the private listing.
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problems seeing photos?

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Image posting

Postby Papou » Mar 19, 2007 10:32 am

I also have had problems posting images here on Hallsons. IMHO the permitted size is too small and defeats the purpose. As a consequence I have started many posts here in the past and would get discouraged because I could not attach a large enough pic....which would make me simply abandon.
I have been receiving Hank's POD and it's well worth it. Thanks Mr. Zumach, you have been always an inspiration for me...and my road model I may add...since I started this adventure 5 years ago. Again thanks. I do appreciate your remarks and comments on individual hostas.
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Postby Chris_W » Mar 19, 2007 10:47 am

Hi,

The problem with seeing photos is that people cannot see the thumbnails that are created when an image is over a set size. They have no problem seeing images that display without a thumbnail.

The thumbnail size for now is set at 70 kb. So if everyone can create photos that are less than 70kb, everyone will be able to see them.

From 70kb to 80 kb it will create a thumbnail, and due to some unknown setting on a few computers, those computers can't see the thumbnail. This is not a forum problem, per se, because the forum software has not changed in years. This is something new on some PCs. Renaldo thought it was from a firewall setting, but I don't think he was ever able to figure it out. But it is some kind of add-on or update to a few computers that has created the problem. However, an update to the forum is planned for later this year and with some luck it will address this unique but rare error.

And in my opinion, the size limit of 80kb per attached image is very generous, and more than enough for any reasonably sized picture that is still of good or even high quality. Just look at Hank's or Leafmoulds pictures for some excellent examples of reasonable file sizes yet still excellent pictures. We have to remember that 1) not every user has a large monitor and 2) not every user has a high speed connection. Many people still have dialup so any larger images would make their forum experience unbearable. Also, when a picture is larger in dimensions than their monitor the user has to scroll back and forth making the forum unreadable.

I do hope that everyone will try to keep their image size less than 70kb. If that can be done, everyone will be able to view the images.

Thanks,

Chris
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Postby Chris_W » Mar 19, 2007 10:53 am

P.S. - If the 70kb limit on thumbnails causes too many NEW problems, just let me know and we will try to come up with a happy medium for another limit.
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Postby jgh » Mar 19, 2007 11:39 am

as a dial-up dinosaur, I can confirm that it already takes a very long time to load threads with pictures... so much so that I don't get to check out all the seedling pics being posted. And uploading my photos, even in the under 70 size, takes sooooo lonnnnngggg... so even though I have to downsize a lot to post, I think this is still a good compromise...

and thanks again, Chris, for letting us play in your sandbox!
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Postby renaldo75 » Mar 19, 2007 12:47 pm

Thanks for upping the limit to 70kb, Chris!! :P I can see all of Hank's 3 Fire & Ice pics. His 3rd one is the largest - 68.62kb [I think it was]. jgh's 1st pic is over 70kb so I didn't expect to see it, but his 2nd pic is 68.73kb and I can't see it either. So apparently the cut-off line is really somewhere between 68.62 & 68.73. I know that last year when you had it set at 60kb after my problems that if it was close to 59kb or above it then I couldn't see any pic.

Last year the problem started with the new firewall I began using after I switched to not-quite Hi-Speed Internet service [but much faster than dial-up]. I had the problem solved for a week. The firewall people were able to take over my computer [the cyber-space version of an out-of-body-experience] and it was fine. Worked great - I could see all pics again & the emoticons were animated again. All was right with my world. :D

Then the cable company did some kind of overnite upgrade on their lines or there was a disruption of service [can't remember which now] and it was back to the same problem as before. I thought that was pretty screwy - made no sense to me why that would have affected my problem with jpegs on here at all. So I was disheartened & I never have felt like waiting for 15-20 min to get thru to my ISP people and then have to explain the problem to them & wait another 10-15 min for them to hook me up with some nice Indian man to explain my Hallson jpeg problem to. :roll: After about 5 minutes I look like this: :x and by the time I finally get to talk to an actual person [after hearing the same series of recorded messages {voiced in a nice purring voice that sounds just like Joan Steffends from that HGTV show where the designer can't spend over $500 to remodel a room - which I DO enjoy} at least 6-8 times] I look a lot like this: :evil:

Just thinking of going thru that life-enriching/life-draining experience will put me off calling for another 3-4 months..... :roll: **sigh**
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Postby renaldo75 » Mar 19, 2007 1:05 pm

One thing I have discovered in resizing pics for Hallson's which works for my camera & the editing program I use [Roxio]. I take the pics at the largest size I can on the camera - 1280 x 960 pixels. The kb size can range from 500+ to 900+ depending mostly on the amount of light. When I edit the pics to post on Hallson's I re-size the pics to 640 x 480 pixels. Save the pic w/a different name & then it is a size that is almost always under 80kb and it's usually under 70kb. If it's still over 80kb, then I go back to editing and use the crop feature. Usually just cropping a thin 'line' off of one side will then drop it down to under 60 or 70kb.

I realize that everyone's editing programs are different but this has worked well for me. And there should be similar ways to resize on other editing programs. And I am technologically challenged to say the least. :wink: LOL
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Postby greenguy » Mar 19, 2007 5:17 pm

people can also use sites like photobucket for pics
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Postby thy » Mar 19, 2007 5:55 pm

And set the resulution ? to 70 or less- make it possible to show bigger pics with the same kb. Web cant do a 100 % perfect pic anyway- 70 is max

Chris if several people have the problem- why not put it to a 70 kb limit- we have had 60 before and 70 is fine

Still would like you to tell us how much you spend on server space- space for all the pics we all enjoy aren't free
Would like to pay my share :wink:

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Postby Pieter » Mar 19, 2007 11:33 pm

When I first joined Hallson's I also had a problem seeing some pictures and/or thumbnails. Chris -and others- suggested making some changes to the security settings of the browser I use, in particular allowing pop-ups for the Hallson site. BINGO! no problems with seeing pictures any more.

In my opinion a goodly number of the posters do not have a good grasp of the things that go into how to shrink the size of the file you post. It's obvious the size of the file is very much influenced by the physical dimension of the image displayed, but also the amount of detail as well as how much compression you apply. I do not have sufficient exposure to the various image editing programs out there, but i have no doubt they all incorporate a tool that allows the image to be compressed further than whatever the default settings are when you are saving an image as a JPG file.

To illustrate I will post 3 images of a Guacamole flower. The original images comes off my camera at 2560x1920, so the first thing I do for posting is make sure that I do whatever cropping may be necessary and then reduce the display size of the final image to somewhere around 800x600. The images will show what it looks like at the default compression rate and with progressively more compression applied. Notice how the file size changes. The difference in the amount of detail you see between the original file and the one compressed at a 30% ratio is minimal and you'd probably only really see it if you were to print the file to an 8x10 print size.

I'll post a further sequence in another reply that will show a much more detailed image at the same 800x600 viewing size.

BTW, before I forget, I use Corel Paint Shop Pro X as my image editor.
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Postby Pieter » Mar 19, 2007 11:39 pm

For good measure, 2 versions of a much more detailed image at a 30% and a 40% compression rate. The original of this when reduced to 800x600 was in excess of 100K, too big for the forum, so I can only show it at the 2 further compression rates.

Notice how the 40% compression gets to a point where you start to notice a difference in overall sharpness and detail in the dimples on the leaves.
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Postby Papou » Mar 20, 2007 5:17 am

A picture with resolution 800x600 is the size I normally use and it is just fine. I believe Chris that you are set up correctly and nobody should have any problem. Your thumbnail size is 400x300 pixels which takes anywhere from 35 to 50KB.
Actually there is no problem.
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Postby Papou » Mar 20, 2007 5:30 am

Just testing with a pic of Blue Mouse Ears...
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Postby Papou » Mar 20, 2007 5:50 am

OUPS....it didnt work...
my 640x480 pixels image yields 81.56 KB....
If the thumbnail was reduced in size, it could save a lot of space. Is it possible when clicking on a pic to see its full size...that your program be modified to automatically reduce any oversized pics. Photobucket does that....just a thought.
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Postby Pieter » Mar 20, 2007 8:07 am

Salut Ghislain,

After shrinking the image size of your BME, did you apply any further compression? Me thinks you should be able to do an image of at least the 640x480 you ended up with and have a file size of 50K or below when you use some further compression. Check your editing programs help file for the topic 'compression' and it will guide you through the process.
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Postby Ed_B » Mar 20, 2007 10:52 am

Hi

Microsoft has a really nice image re-sizer for Windows XP in it's Power Toys
After you install it, you can right click on any picture in the picture files and re-size the picture.
It has a custom setting to make size even smaller if you need to. "Some of mine were still to big to post" with the program auto settings.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/down ... rtoys.mspx
About half way down on the right.

Now if you have Windows Vista, like me your, SOL, because Microsoft hasn't gotten around to making a Power Toy program for it yet :evil:
I did find a program that will work "PIX resizer" on the web.
Not quite as easy, but works, works for me.

Missing my old computer :cry:
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Postby Hank Zumach » Mar 20, 2007 10:52 am

This has been an informative thread for me. When I have compressed my POTD photos, I have only been concerned about keeping them under the 80 kb limit. After all this time, I was not aware of the 70 kb recommendation. Hmmm...maybe I should have read the instructions more carefully way back when. :lol: :oops:

The problem I am faced with now is that I have a folder of about 1600 photos that I already compressed, many of which are between 70 kb and 80 kb. It took many, many hours, using Paint Shop Pro, to go through the compression process and I sure don't want to spend that much time again to make sure all of the photos are under 70 kb. Just recently I have begun to experiment with Picasa, the free photo software from Google. It does allow a person to compress entire folders all at one time but I have not yet gone into it enough to figure out if there is an effective way for me to quickly get my photos all under 70kb. Sounds like a job for a rainy day.

I am curious about something. When a photo is posted as a thumbnail, do people with dial up connections have to wait a while for the photo to open up with the larger image? On my computer it only takes a second and until today, it did not occur to me that others might have a time problem in opening them.
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Postby renaldo75 » Mar 20, 2007 12:19 pm

Hank - I have Picasa taking up space on my computer - still not sure why. I just spent another 5 minutes looking for a way to do compression. I see no way to do it. Other than cropping & messing with the color, etc. I can't see any way to make a picture be a smaller kb size using Picasa. There probly is & I'm just not smart enough to read the code. That would be par for the course for me. :???:
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When OC joined HJallsons

Postby oldcoot » Mar 20, 2007 2:54 pm

Several years ago, he had a zillion problems with Kb size. Went to a program called Paint Shop Album Five which lets you set the size of the width and length of the image. OC has found that by keeping his size length at 600-650 the4 width will fall to about 480-500 He'd then saves the image and he has the option of 3 degrees of compression. He usually uses medium at this size. For images in the 700kb range, he uses Photobucket because his Australian Forum was full images..... OC also has Picasa. He got it for his brother-in-law, and looked at to help him. Can't remember how to re size, but will look it up for Reynaldo. OC is pretty sue you can - just doesn't come to mind. OC also uses Photo shop Elements 3 which for several weeks has been acting ugly. Has stooped resizing. Got a note saying virtual memory too low. Guessses fhat means OC needs to clean out his computer again.

Good Luck to everybody OC
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Postby Hank Zumach » Mar 20, 2007 5:05 pm

Reldon--Just cick on the photo you want to compress, click on
Export" and use the window that comes up to set your compression level and photo size. You can do a whole folder at once or you can do seveal photos by clicking "hold" after selecting each photo. I hope this helps.
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