Kinbuchi Tachi & SILVER STAR discussion

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Kinbuchi Tachi & SILVER STAR discussion

Postby redcrx » Mar 18, 2011 5:30 pm

I renamed the topic from "Went to Hosta College last weekend":

Got the opportunity to attend the hosta college. My wife and I had a really nice time. Got to meet Chris and Lessadragon. Took Chris's virus class - it was very good. Went to a photo session - the instructor apologized that she didn't have hosta pictures - she had bird pictures - being a bird lover that was not a problem - http://birds.camden.rutgers.edu.

Also got to meet Dave Stegman and his wife Bev, and Tom Micheletti and his wife Becky. I ended up going to all of Tom's classes.

Bought a couple of plants (of course): Prince of Darkness and Rebel Heart.

It was a long trip. We drove and it took 11 hours. When we left New Jersey it was 55 degrees. While crossing PA you have to go over some mountains - we hit snow, fog, sleet, howling winds. Got to Ohio and it was about 45 degrees and sunny. On the way home we stopped at the Air Force Museum in Dayton. That was fun but made for a really long day. Next time I think we will fly into Columbus instead.

Prince of Darkness 11 0492.JPG

Prince of Darkness 11 0493.JPG

Rebel Heart 11 0500.JPG

Rebel Heart 11 0501.JPG

Rebel Heart 11 0502.JPG
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Kinbuchi Tachi & SILVER STAR discussion

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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby viktoria » Mar 19, 2011 7:40 am

Tell us more about 'Rebel Heart'. I do not see it at the Library.

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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby Linda P » Mar 19, 2011 7:53 am

Well, Ed!!! I was there too, and missed out on the chance to meet you! It was a great weekend, but it went by too fast.

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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby redcrx » Mar 19, 2011 9:10 am

Hi Victoria,
I got this from the myhosta database:
"If we remember right, this plant is from breeding lines that started with croses of blue plants, especially 'Halcyon', with 'Sea Prize'. This line led to some really nice streaked plants and the one 'Rebel Heart' was from was the nicest of all. It is really nice and just may be the prettiest color combination you see in spring. "

Jim Swartz and Jack Barta were both selling them for about $20. I should probably send pictures to the library. The plant really stood out. They also had Silver Star that jumped out at me but I didn't buy it - just can't buy everything.

Hi Linda, sorry I missed you. We had a good time. My wife was really interested in the BIG hosta quilt that they were raffling in the foyer but we didn't win. I did win a Dick Ward that they were raffling.
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Start of Kinbuchi Tachi & SILVER STAR discussion

Postby redcrx » Mar 19, 2011 2:04 pm

I sent Bob both Rebel Heart and Prince of Darkness. They are now on the library site.
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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby R. Rock » Mar 19, 2011 4:26 pm

Hi Ed,

Thanks for sharing.

Kinbuchi Tachi and Silver Star are the exact same plant. I guess that is why you liked it so much :D I don't mean to bad mouth anyone. However, a legitimate, responsible vendor would list it and advise it as such. I really thought about adding a little more... :???:

Glad you enjoyed your trip.

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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby Chris_W » Mar 19, 2011 7:25 pm

Hi Ed,

It was really nice meeting you last weekend, and I agree with Linda, it just goes by way too fast!

And Nut House, is Silver Star really the same as Kinbuchi Tachi? I knew they were related but for some reason I thought Silver Star was more of a white margin and Kinbuchi Tachi more of a creamy yellow margin? I don't have any idea why I was thinking that, though. Personally I really like the unique form of Kinbuchi Tachi, and was thinking that Silver Star was nice enough to start growing that too. If they are the same I'll still buy Silver Star but make it very clear that it is just a renaming. I'm sure Q & Z would be able to clarify (and if you are right then I agree, they should label it as such instead of calling it a "new" plant).
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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby redcrx » Mar 19, 2011 8:57 pm

My info on Silver Star is that it's "real" name is Ginbuchi Tachi but that name didn't sell so now it Silver Star.

I think Kinbuchi Tachi is a huge plant compared to Ginbuchi Tachi (just a gut feeling - need a few years of growth). I got Kinbuchi Tachi from Chris last season and it has wide leaves. I think Ginbuchi Tachi's leaves are thin.
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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby R. Rock » Mar 19, 2011 9:01 pm

Hi,

According to the online catalog, " H. 'Silver Star' represents the true form of H. 'Ginbuchi Tachi' " The hostapedia, page 496 does refer to two forms being sold as H. 'Kinbuchi Tachi'. "U.S. collections have a creamy yellow margin that fades to white, Japan margins stay gold throughout the growing season".

So...when the U.S plants were released by this nursery, they should have actually been called a white margined sport of H. rectifolia 'Aureomarginata' or H. rectifolia 'Kinbuchi Tachi' according to the 2002 AHS registration, not H. 'Kinbuchi Tachi'. Why was there no difference in names at the time of release, it would seem there wasn't enough of a difference to tell them apart. There was also a few contradicting types and information.

According to the hostapedia pg. 339, the Japanese call it "Ginbuchi Tachi Giboshi". I am assuming this is why QandZ changed it to H. 'Ginbuchi Tachi' from H. 'Kinbuchi Tachi'. The plant came from Japan and if it is considered H. 'Ginbuchi Tachi Giboshi' in Japan, it should be introduced/released as H. 'Ginbuchi Tachi' here in the U.S.. I also assume the Giboshi part was taken off for simplicity.

In simple terms it may be the "G" would be white margined
the "K" might start off w/ a gold margin
The "G" sported from "K"

If I understand this right , from the information I am gathering, there is complication in the registration between a gold edge and a white edge. However, does the gold edge exist and should it be called H. 'Kinbuchi Tachi' or is it a form of rectifolia similar to 'Opipara'? Considering the information is correct from the hostapedia, the previous plants released should have actually been H. 'Ginbuchi Tachi' and not H. 'Kinbuchi Tachi' assuming we are now going to consider a white margined form the "True Type/Form" of H. 'Ginbuchi Tachi' . This is being done because Mr. Kimio Muroya of Hirosaki, Japan called the white margined plant "Ginbuchi Tachi Giboshi".

Where does 'Silver Star' come into play :?: I had also heard H. 'Ginbuchi Tachi' was being called 'Silver Star' because of marketing reasons. I cannot refer to anything specific because I don't recall my source. :hmm:

I do not agree anyone has a right to change a plants name entirely just to sell it. This is little more than interest in financial gain at others expense. It is a poor representation of professionalism and credibility. I believe consumers deserve to fully know what they are purchasing. It is a responsibility to be taken seriously. Changing names discredits and jeopardizes hosta as a whole. To keep this plant on top, in the perennial market and gardens, you have to be upfront on all aspects. :???:

It would be interesting to see Mr. Schmidt's and Mr. Zilis's separate take on all this :-? .


Don't get me wrong, I do really like the plant :D . I just didn't want to see Ed get burned on another double.

I have learned to always double check and find the actual parentage/background with plants from this nursery.
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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby redcrx » Mar 19, 2011 9:05 pm

If that's not confusing enough there is also a reference to the plant as rectifolia 'Chionea' - and they do look similar. All I care about is will they put out flowers for my hummingbirds.
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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby redcrx » Mar 26, 2011 11:15 pm

Just found this cached on-line but the original page was gone - note the date "1998". I highlighted the important text. This must be where Zilis is referring to a registered form that is shown on Page 339.


Ontario Hosta Society:: Winter 1998 Newsletter
... ) Ki Kabitan kabitan (white) Shiro-Kabitan kabitan Kabitan koryu Koryu montana v. aureomarginata Kifukurin Oba nigerescens v. elatior Seitaka-Kuro opipara Nishiki rectifolia v. chionea Ginbuchi Tachi rhodeifolia v. aureomarginata Kifukurin Omoto saishu jima tokudama Tokudama f. flavocircinalis Kifukurin Tokudama f. aureonebulosa Akebono Tokudama f. flavoplanata Ko-Akebono Tokudama tortifrons ...
http://www.ontariohostasociety.com


I have a hosta called rectifolia Chionea so I must have Ginbuchi Tachi. And it does look different from Ginko Craig.
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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby redcrx » Mar 27, 2011 10:06 am

Doing some research on dark flowered recifolia I found this - the original page from above:
http://www.rittenhouse.ca/hortmag/Hosta/Hosta_Winter98.htm
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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby Chris_W » Mar 27, 2011 2:19 pm

Thanks for the link Ed. That is a great list of Japanese translations there.

It says that Buchi means variegation, Gin means silvery white, and Kin means golden yellow. Of course Tachi means erect/upright.

So Kinbuchi Tachi would mean yellow edged/upright and Ginbuchi Tachi would mean white edged/upright. Makes me want to grow both to see if there is a difference :)

I can see why Giboshi would be dropped from any name as that just means Hosta.
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Re: Went to the Hosta College last weekend

Postby redcrx » Mar 27, 2011 8:24 pm

Hi Chris, I have a couple of both (GT or SS & KT) that will be growing side-by-side. As well as a couple more KT, on order from you, that will be in a different area.
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Re: SILVER STAR & Kinbuchi Tachi

Postby redcrx » Jun 23, 2012 8:16 pm

Please check mid-topic viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54310#p471542 for the start of a "comparison" discussion.


Here is an update. To me these are very close.

Kinbuchi Tachi:
Hosta Registry - http://www.hostaregistrar.org/detail.php?id=3459&Variety=Kinbuchi%20Tachi
MyHostas - http://myhostas.be/db/hostas/Kinbuchi+Tachi
Hosta Library - http://www.hostalibrary.org/k/kinbuchi.html

SILVER STARTM: (Point of interest - this name is trade marked and should be written in all caps - I read that somewhere years ago but can't find the reference now.)
Hosta Registry - not registered
MyHostas - http://myhostas.be/db/hostas/Silver+Star
Hosta Library - http://www.hostalibrary.org/s/silverstar.html
Hosta info added 2/6/2013.

Kinbuchi Tachi & SILVER STAR 12 03105zb.jpg
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Flower differences - SILVER STAR & Kinbuchi Tachi

Postby redcrx » Feb 06, 2013 6:14 pm

Something to think about.

I was trying to see if there is a difference in the flowers on SILVER STAR and Kinbuchi Tachi. I don't have enough photos of SS yet but I did notice a "slight" difference.
Here are two photos of the same SILVER STAR flower this past season.
SILVER STAR f 12 05072zb-8-17.JPG

SILVER STAR f 12 05073zb-8-17.JPG

Here are three photos of Kinbuchi Tachi - one for each of the last three seasons:
I was trying see if there was a noticeable difference in the striping on the petals. What I found was that the sepal's mid-stripe was faint or lighter than the two stripes that border it. This is odd - I always thought the mid-stripe was the darkest of the stripes or at least the same as the other stripes. The sepal pointing to the top-left jumped out at me.
Kinbuchi Tachi f 12 03848zbz46-7-15.jpg

When I noticed the difference, I went back into my photos to see if it was the same in previous years. The best example for 2011 is the sepal pointing to the left with the ant on it.
Kinbuchi Tachi f 11 1733zbz46-7-28.jpg

For 2010 the best example is the sepal pointing top-right.
Kinbuchi Tachi 10 f 0023-8-11.JPG


The middle striping on the sepals for SILVER STAR seems to be the same intensity but I need more pictures.
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Re: Kinbuchi Tachi & SILVER STAR discussion

Postby redcrx » May 14, 2013 1:40 am

Here is a comparison photo.

Three similar plants - green center with light edge. SILVER STAR is on the right. Kinbuchi Tachi is on the left and center. Tokudama Aureonebulosa is in front.
front lawn Kinboki Tachi 13 01880zbz20.jpg

Is there a tad of a difference in the edge color?
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Re: Went to Hosta College last weekend & SILVER STAR discuss

Postby Carol O » May 14, 2013 11:08 am

Back to "Went to Hosta College last weekend..." My hubby and I had to drive 4 days from Washington to meet Bev and Dave Stegman, and Linda P., but it was worth it. Next time I go back to the midwest, though, I want to tour Bev and Dave's garden. I've seen pictures, they have a great growing gazebo for their hostas. Also met many others at the Michigan Hybridizers Meeting last June in Ann Arbor. I really wish Washington wasn't so far away as I would like to go to Hosta College.
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SILVER STAR discussion

Postby Ludi » May 05, 2015 9:07 pm

Silver Star has a sort of personality about it. Truly, one of a kind.

Took this pic today and really enjoyed the form of the pips unfurling.

5/5/2015
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Re: Kinbuchi Tachi & SILVER STAR discussion

Postby redcrx » May 27, 2017 4:48 am

Kinbuchi Tachi & SILVER STAR this season with Kinbuchi Tachi on the bottom of the photo and SILVER STAR at the top.
There are two plants of Kinbuchi Tachi and only one SILVER STAR in that space. The SILVER STAR may have a slightly wider white edge in this photo - but it's hard to tell the difference.
Kinbuchi Tachi & SILVE STAR 170074.jpg
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