non-registered hostas

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Should hostas have to be registered

yes
17
50%
no
16
47%
don't know or don't care
1
3%
 
Total votes : 34

non-registered hostas

Postby scootersbear » Sep 26, 2005 4:57 pm

Lately theres a lot of unregistered hostas put out in the market..Whats your opinion...I don't approve of it and think it could cause problems in the future...
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non-registered hostas

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Postby renaldo75 » Sep 26, 2005 7:12 pm

I guess I don't understand why some hybridizers who have excellent plants don't register their plants.

Greg Johnson from Iowa is a good example. He's an very good hybridizer with quite a few garden worthy & diverse plants out there on the market [Moonlight Sonata, Tequila Sunrise, Topaz, Everlasting Love, Radio Waves, Rhythm & Blues to name a few], but not a one of them has been registered as far as I know.

And yet a lot of questionable TC sports & others that will probly never be on the market are registered by the dozens. I don't get it.......

Good question, Scott. I hope you get some other feedback in addition to your poll results. Which so far are overwhelmingly one-sided.
GO HAWKEYES!!!

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Postby scootersbear » Sep 26, 2005 7:48 pm

My point is Renaldo is that none of those hostas are published and none of them truely exist by name and could be used by anyone. I could register a hosta under any of those name and put a PPAF next to it which could very easily cause both the origional hybridizer problems and now I have 2 hostas of the same name in my garden, as well as, I can take any of those hostas and send in a pic to the AHS and register them under any name I please...It only cost $5 to register a hosta and they will even take in the cost if you forget to send the $5... it makes the AHS a joke...I've been tempted to take Zilis H. Ice Age Trail and register it as H. Scotts Ripoff just to prove a point. Or since Red October isn't registered and maybe the most supplied hosta, register it and put a PPAF next to it and collect a free paycheck.
I would never do this but somebody could.
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Postby Kent » Sep 26, 2005 8:23 pm

I have about 30 named hostas and at present count 14 are either on or in the process of making it to market. I only have one registered plant and don't see getting the others done in the near future. Maybe when I have some free time I'll get some done but I have no plans to register all my hostas, especially those that I have no intentions of putting on the market.

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Postby pepper1 » Sep 26, 2005 8:47 pm

I think it would be nice to see plants that do make it to the market (or might make it some day) be registered...as a way of documenting the pedigree, describing the plant (especially if the plant is allowed to mature before collecting and reporting the data) and as a way of protecting the name.

I'm not so excited about registering plants that will never be marketed...I can see registering a favorite plant or two just as a matter of pride, even if it is just shared among friends, but it does seem that there are many plants being registered that will be seen by just a handful of people...in some cases I wonder if names are being "blocked" rather than being "protected".

It looks like Greg Johnson did a bunch of catching up on registrations this year...

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Postby KatailS » Sep 26, 2005 8:52 pm

renaldo75 wrote:Greg Johnson from Iowa is a good example. He's an very good hybridizer with quite a few garden worthy & diverse plants out there on the market [Moonlight Sonata, Tequila Sunrise, Topaz, Everlasting Love, Radio Waves, Rhythm & Blues to name a few], but not a one of them has been registered as far as I know.

Hey Reldon!
Just a correction... I know that a few of the above ARE registered! Radio Waves, Rhythm & Blues, Tequila Sunrise.... in fact... just looked them all up and they are registered!
Cheers!
Kathie
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Postby Roxanne » Sep 26, 2005 8:54 pm

Ice Age Trail IS registered....
I guess it's up each individual if they plan to market it/see a need, etc.
EVERYTHING can't be registered. There's too many folks that hybridize for sheer pleasure. Also, factor in how many "volunteer" Hostas people may have that they are content just to watch in their own garden, maybe naming them after a grandson, whatever.
As for the name part--I do see a day when electronic media ie:Hosta Library/Lemke's Data Base would be allowed to "claim a name"
Just my two cents.
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Postby John » Sep 26, 2005 9:11 pm

When a Hosta is registered, the name would then appear in a checklist, correct? Which would then become the place to see whether a name is in use already or not. So, I think it is important to register the name thereby avoiding any needless confusion, which is already a problem with plant nomenclature. Registration-- sort of like a birth certificate for newly introduced hosta cultivars...

Depending on current bylaws and perhaps with a view to future rules, it is not unthinkable that someone other than the hybridizer or grower might register an unregistered cultivar with the registration authority; registering it oneself would avoid that unpleasant loss of control.
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Postby scootersbear » Sep 26, 2005 9:17 pm

Ice Age Trail is not registered...You'll notice the NR next to it's name on the hosta library...just because it's in the library doesn't mean it's registered. I'm not concerned about a hosta thats in a persons yard thats not being marketed...it's the 1's that are on the market that make it a problem. Approx. 25 to 35% of the hostas in the library at present are not registered. Theres over 60,000 registered Daylillies, and it cost $15 to register them.
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Postby Kent » Sep 26, 2005 9:23 pm

Just for the record, once a name has been published weather it's in a catalog or journal. The name cannot be registered to another hosta. So for example, Tremors (one of my plants) is listed in a catalog but it's not registered. Now if someone were to submit registration papers for another hosta using that name it would be rejected. So in a sence, once your hosta's name has made into print it's protected some what.

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Postby Kent » Sep 26, 2005 9:32 pm

OK Scootersbear, also for the record Ice Age trail is registered, the library just hasn't been updated, and if you notice Little Hobber is listed in the library as NR but it also is registered. Sometimes plants are listed there before they get registered.

Kent :D
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Postby scootersbear » Sep 26, 2005 9:57 pm

What year was it registered? I can't find it on any of my registration publications...either way it's only 1 example...
I can find 100's more...just look at the first page of the A's in the library.
Kent thats where the disagreement comes in...although you have released that name you don't have it registered...and there are no rules that apply to it either way...I can go out and pick any of my seedlings in my garden and call it Tremors. Put it in the TC process and release 1000's of them with no recourse, sure it's not registered but neither is yours...now we all have 2 Tremors in our garden with no recourse...and all I would have to say is I didn't know there was a hosta called Tremors, since it's not registered at the AHS...theres no legal recourse or protection...even if you did try to take it to court, I'm sure you'd be out more money than it would be worth with Lawyer fees. If it was registered this could not happen.
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Postby druff » Sep 26, 2005 10:49 pm

wouldn't it be great if the registrar. put all of the registered hostas online with their info and original pictures. and made a form to register new hostas and pay for it online.

sure would be a valuable resource.

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Postby Seedseller1 » Sep 27, 2005 12:31 am

Hey Scott!

I see your intent here, and I would agree with you that a name should be registered, IF the plant has something to offer to the garden. There are so many look-a-likes out there that I wouldn't include in my "collection" simply because they have nothing to add other than a different name, registered or not. I for one may have something that I created or found that may be special to me for that reason, and give it a name, but maybe it wouldn't pass registration--I haven't tried to register a plant and don't know what the criteria are, and to me the criteria are not stringent enough when we have a "Zager's White Edge", for example, (and no offense intended) and how many hundred others that look like an undulata with a different name? I'm in favor of naming the hosta and letting the market dictate if it should be registered, and "respecting" the names already used. The registry should differenciate something unique, regardless of the name, but the "rules" should not limit me to naming a hosta after my grandaughter, reqardless of how plain green it is.
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Postby John » Sep 27, 2005 7:47 am

Right, getting the name of your cultivar into print (publishing to the web does not count, must be a permanent form) does provide limited protection, as it shows the earliest use of the name. The only true protection would be the very expensive route of trademarking or patenting the name. Registration works as long as it is respected. I would think no one would wish to take a name already in use, but if he were to look at the checklist of registered hostas, and not find 'Tremors' there, he might well assume the name was available, not having seen the publication in which it appears.

I'd like to see another poll, how do people feel about using names already taken, but with a prefix... such as adding 'Siloam' or 'Chicago' to a hemerocallis/daylily name already taken. Perhaps registration rules should protect against someone using a great name like 'Tremors' for another cultivar and calling it 'Jersey Tremors'.
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Postby barbara » Sep 27, 2005 8:07 am

Scott, Ice Age Trail : HJ 35:R, page 22. (2003 registrations)
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Postby FreakyCola » Sep 27, 2005 8:45 am

Roxanne, What is Lemke's Data Base? Is it on the web?

John, what does 'Siloam' mean before a daylily? Is it the originator's name?

I think the AHS should register all the hostas that are put on the market & like others have said, if it's just like something already being sold, then you shouldn't rename it & be able to sell it.

Kent, aren't you afraid someone could take one of your names, register & patent it & receive the royalties? By the way, how does the money get to the originator when I buy a patented hosta?
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Registering Hostas

Postby thehostagourmet » Sep 27, 2005 9:13 am

Folks, there is the factor of individual rights to be considered here. No way should someone HAVE to register any Hosta. I believe the AHS is at fault here. There is very little incentive for registering a Hosta other than ego satisfaction and being able to show leaves in more classes in leaf shows.

I have been advocating for several years having the AHS help Hosta hybridizers and sport originators in patenting Hostas that are commercially worthy. I broached the subject to both Jim Wilkins and C. H. Falstad while they served as AHS presidents, and met a deafening silence.

A "patent mill" specializing in plant patents would significantly reduce the expense of patenting individual plants. It may never happen because of the conflict of interest between the t.c. lab owners, their coterie, with their commercial interests, and the protection from cloning without compensation of Hostas developed by others.

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Postby scootersbear » Sep 27, 2005 10:37 am

I don't beleive that any one should HAVE to register a hosta , but if they don't the name doesn't exist and that name is open to usage by anyone...thats the easy insentive to have somebody to register a hosta. Registering a hosta is to protect the name of the hosta wether it's a plain Jane hosta or not. To protect the hybridizer.
It has happened before, I beleive it was Fourth of July where there was 2 of them on the market..they came to an agreement and the later was renamed but that hosta was produced under that name and probably sits in many peoples gardens.
Mike..who chooses whats market worthy...what I like you may not...and it's really not about what the plant looks like as much as it's protecting the name and integrity of the hosta as well as the hybridizer. Generally the only time a hosta is denided is because of the name is already registered. Lets face it: it's said theres only 500 distinct hostas and 3000 registered so theres 2500 that look like another.
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Postby Lessadragon » Sep 27, 2005 11:24 am

Scott... Little Hobber is registered. HJ 33:R 15
Not to be nit picky or anything, but perhaps a little more research before you throw out names is in order.

Lynn
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