non-registered hostas

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Should hostas have to be registered

yes
17
50%
no
16
47%
don't know or don't care
1
3%
 
Total votes : 34

Postby leafmould » Sep 27, 2005 11:51 am

Registering a hosta as everyone knows, does not make it any better. Almost anything will be accepted. I think this acceptance of anything weakens the value of registering a seedling in the mind of a hybridizer.(this does not imply that there are not fantastic registered hosta)
Hosta hybridizers are in general a gentlemanly bunch. Most do an extensive name search before publishing a chosen name. :P It is highly unlikely that a hybridizer would go forward with a name that was being used ANYWHERE.
The english language is huge :P there is always a better name :wink:
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Postby scootersbear » Sep 27, 2005 11:56 am

I didn't say anything about Little Hobber...and like I said...theres 100's of hostas out in the market that are not registered...pick 1, any 1...doesn't matter...Being wrong about 1 hosta(in this case Ice Age Trail) has nothing to do about the subject ... I couldn't find it's registration. It's about the subject matter not about the exact hostas.

My next registered hosta "Nit Picky"
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Postby John » Sep 27, 2005 12:01 pm

Scott is going by the "NR" not-registered in the hostalibrary, which was not updated in those instances; his point remains, although the examples were not correct.

As I recall, 'Siloam' is a city/town? used as a prefix for one hybridizer's daylilies.

Granted, almost anything can be registered, but for the name to become known and not forgotten the hosta has to have something to offer, and that something is becoming more critical. Besides the name that is registered, the name of the hybridizer associated with it is also important. There have been hostas (and other genera) registered by well-known breeders which if registered by anyone unknown would have not been noticed and perhaps rightly so.

I see registering a hosta as conforming to a standard procedure that makes it easier for someone down the line to know if a name is in use, and to discover the history of cultivars of interest; one central location to search.
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Postby jgh » Sep 27, 2005 1:23 pm

As an ardent civil rights advocate, I had to vote "no" - because of the way the question was phrased. I don't see it as possible or desireable to force people to register a hosta.

But I strongly support the contention that any hosta sold or traded by name SHOULD have that plant and name registered. It is such a simple process... it just seems like the responsible thing to do. If it is good enough to sell or trade, it is good enough to deserve a "legal" name.

I've got lots of sports. I have one very nice one that I CALL H. "Shejim" - the double quotes indicate that it is a "use name" (not a registered name), like "Gold Crown". It is a nice, streaky, viridescent sport of Honeybells. Of course, there are lots of nice, viridescent sports of Honeybells in gardens, so I won't register it or send it off in any secret trades. (Shejim, BTW... Sheila and Jim, meaning, US!)

I've had two that I thought might be of some general interest and perhaps worthwhile additions to the hosta world. I registered both of them. I think I may have registered one of the first sports of H. 'Sagae' - it is H. 'Sookai'. More grayish than Sagae, more ruffled. Unfortunately, I split it, fostered out a piece, and moved the remaining three pieces to a new location away from the silver maple where it started life as a tc. It is coming along slowly, and the divisions are not as striking as it appeared originally. Now, since there are so many Sagae sports coming into tc, I may never sell it or trade it... but at least it is registered if I ever want to

I registered 'Xela', knowing there is an abundance of August Moon sports... but I am fond of subtle coloring, and the commercial AM sports (like September Sun, Lunar Orbit, etc.) tend to have strongly contrasting colors. So far, Xela is in two spots in my garden and one (if it is still living) with Danny in Belgium.

So I'm with Scott... if somebody is going to originate a hosta and sell or trade it, they should know enough about it so that registration should be about a 20 minute process... and if one doesn't have the $5 (yes... $5!) to register, the AHS will pick up the tab.
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Postby Jaspersail » Sep 27, 2005 1:45 pm

What does registration accomplish? It helps establish plant names and reduce potential confusion. It records plant data that can assist future hybridizers/growers/researchers in tracing a hosta's lineage. It makes the person submitting the registration (and sometimes others)--and the plant--part of hosta "history."

What doesn't registration accomplish? It doesn't make a plant inherently more valuable, more garden-worthy, or more marketable. (And it doesn't always suggest that the person submitting the registration believes it is ANY of those things.)

It really just reserves a name for a hosta photograph and its description. People can have different reasons for wanting to do that.

The AHS Registrar (as I understand it), simply confirms that the name is unique, the name conforms to the International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants, and the photograph and application adequately represent the plant and are completed properly. The registrar does not evaluate the plant for its merit (as part of the registration process anyway!) or "value" in being registered.

The AHS assists in the registration process with a "quality control" check, but hosta registration itself is handled by the International Society for Horticultural Science and its appointed authorities.

In my opinion, there's no harm to anyone is registering a hosta. And the person doesn't then owe it to anyone to sell or share a registered plant. However, there don't seem to be strong reasons (other than vanity!) to register a hosta that won't leave your yard (as a plant or genetically in pollen, seeds, or seedlings).

My approach (as one who has never registered a hosta!) is to only share plants with others that I am considering registering. If the plants perform well and are well-liked, I will probably register them.

Sorry for babbling on and on,

--John
Last edited by Jaspersail on Oct 03, 2005 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Reserving Hosta names

Postby thehostagourmet » Sep 27, 2005 2:48 pm

Scootersbear, you cannot register a Hosta with a name that has been previously in print for commercial purposes. The name is then unavailable for registration. I'm afraid you haven't convinced me.

Jaspersail said: "It records plant data that can assist future hybridizers/growers/researchers in tracing a hosta's lineage." This is exactly why some hybridizers won't register their Hostas. Paul Aden did register most of his Hostas, but obfuscated extensively.

The only answer, if the AHS wants all Hostas registered, is to protect the originator financially by offering cheap plant patenting.

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Postby Jaspersail » Sep 27, 2005 4:44 pm

George,

I've certainly heard that Aden gave "questionable" data about his introductions, but do you know of other hybridizers who avoid registration so they don't have to release information about their plants? That would surprise me greatly!

When I began attending the Hosta Hybridizers Group meetings in 1995, lots of the "biggies" in midwest hostadom were there (Benedict, Wilkins, Owens, Wade, Dishon, Zumbar, Kulpa, Krul, Elslager, etc) and they were all extremely open and generous with information. Then again, that's kind of the nature of the group thing...

Reminder to all: the Hosta Hybridizers Group Fall meeting is 10:30 AM, Sunday, Oct 2, at Matthei Botanical Gardens in Ann Arbor, Michigan. All are welcome. There will be a lecture on Hosta Virus X by Dr. Lockhart, a seed swap, and a breeding stock swap.

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Postby scootersbear » Sep 27, 2005 8:03 pm

I may not be able to register it (which nobody has actually proven, so far) but I can use the name, like it or not ...although most people might be gentleman...there are people out there who are not...
So far what this has proven is that many people think AHS is a joke. So convince me why we should even have it then... I find it amazing how people on the hosta side are against registering them but if you look at the Daylilly side how they are offended if it's not registered. Sounds like the system is broke to me and everybody involved with the AHS is willing to turn their backs to it.. It should be an honor to register a hosta not a conviction.
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Postby John » Sep 27, 2005 8:29 pm

As I recall, there may be a rule when registering that the name cannot have appeared in print-- the angle here being even by the person registering the name.

As far as not giving information as to a hosta's parentage/lineage-- this is sometimes seen when a hybridizer falls back on the word "seedling"-- in other words, the parent(s) was/were an unnamed seedling... when it may have been well-known to the breeder.

It would appear to me that it is unnecessary to protect this information with the idea of preventing someone from making the same cross...does it not take many crosses-- hundreds or thousands-- to come up with something worth registering and introducing? That is, unique?
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Postby jgh » Sep 28, 2005 11:26 am

paranoia strikes deep
into your life it will creep
it starts when you're always afraid
step outta line, the man comes and takes you away

my goodness... where would I have to be in my life that I'd be afraid to tell someone what hostas I crossed five years ago to get a favorite seedling? Sometimes I kid around that my sport is "Competive Gardening" - but this is just sad...
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Postby renaldo75 » Sep 28, 2005 6:36 pm

Good to know that some of Greg's hostas are registered now. Last time I'd noticed none of them were, but I haven't had the new registration book for a while now.
GO HAWKEYES!!!

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Postby thy » Sep 28, 2005 6:36 pm

Just my oppinion

If you are going to get the hosta on the market.. please register it

If you have a hosta you just like and woiuld love to give a name... register it in a betta version... just for you self, but here I think the name have to be protected

You know... maybe I can see a serie of Dalish Delight, Danish Waves, Danish Queen or something like that

It is confusing there are so many unregistered hostas for sale...and so many not registerd hostas.... not for sale
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Postby FreakyCola » Sep 29, 2005 12:41 pm

All I want is to buy hostas, and not have the same hosta in my garden under different names. If I buy hosta A and hosta B, then I want there to be a difference. I would think every hosta owner and breeder would feel the same way, so why hasn't anyone come up with a way to have a system in place where the ones for sale are registered somewhere & have to be shown to be different to get registered?

I guess this is where we really need the hosta police to step in! :lol:
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Postby scootersbear » Sep 29, 2005 3:50 pm

I don't want the AHS determining what is different...besides whats a hosta looks like in my garden won't look like it in your. Thats where the consumer comes in and makes that choice...buy it or not...
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Postby FreakyCola » Sep 29, 2005 6:19 pm

Scooterbear, what do you mean? The same hosta will look like a different hosta in every garden? Where did you get that idea?
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Postby Mikky » Sep 29, 2005 9:16 pm

I had an opportunity to ask Kevin Walek a question when he visited one of the Tri-State Hosta Society meetings. My question was if it is allowed to withdraw a registration if his/her own registered hosta no longer exists or it didn't meet the expectation as it matured. I have never registered nor have I anything that I intend to register at this moment, but I was just curious. His answer was "No" because the purpose of registration is to protect the names.

So registration is only for the names? If I have a dream to register, someday, one of my seedlings naming after my child or grandchild, but am afraid the name may be taken by that time, can I reserve the name now by registering a "not-so-special" seedling? No, I don't think so. There should be a certain level of qualification to meet to register a hosta. A registered hosta should be better in appearance, growth rate, heat/pest tolerence or in some way than no-name seedlings in my garden.

There is no such a thing as registration in Japan. If you find a very unusual hosta in the wild, you can name it whatever you like, and you can sell it. It's not surprising there are different hostas with the same name. Sometimes a look-alike seedling is sold as a named hosta. There is also a story that the wrong name was written on the marker as the original name tag was not legible due to poor handwriting and ,thus, a new hosta name was created! You can imagine what it would be like without any records (registrations) where you can look up the information.

OK here's my vote -- if you intend to market/trade the hosta for money, you shoud register it. And the rules/qualifications to register could be more strict, that way we could see more value in registered plants. But if you want to just enjoy it in your garden, or with a friend or two, it's up to you. Registrations, however, should not be like phonebooks that list all the seedlings/sports from every garden.

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Postby scootersbear » Sep 29, 2005 9:25 pm

Because of soil conditions...nutrients, amount of sun and many other factors, you can take the exact same hosta out of your garden and put it in mine and there COULD be a difference in the way the hosta looks...and I didn't say every...if it was taken that way it wasn't ment. It was ment garden to garden.
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Hosta names

Postby thehostagourmet » Sep 30, 2005 7:54 am

Freaky, I don't want the Hosta police to tramp around my garden. They might comment on how lousy it looks.

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Postby FreakyCola » Oct 03, 2005 8:57 am

George, did you ever see the old WKRP in Cincinatti show where DJ Jonny Fever (was it Jonny? Doesn't seem right) Howard Hessman played the role. Anyway, he was high & he and Venus Flytrap were at a remote place checking the tranceiver or something. He broke the phone & then thought the phone police were after him for the rest of the show. My DH & I thought it was hilarious and so we sometimes say things like the Hosta police will come get us.
Just my stupid reminising of a private joke.

But you're right, I don't want them in my yard either! If they came to my garden, I'd get busted for sure for hosta abuse when they saw all the slug holes! :oops:
Ellen

Scooterbear, I have the same hosta in different places in my yard & they look a little different, but you can still tell it's a June or whatever.
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Postby John » Oct 03, 2005 9:39 am

"Scooterbear, I have the same hosta in different places in my yard & they look a little different, but you can still tell it's a June or whatever."

Halfway through that sentence, I thought immediately of 'June' myself; you are right, it looks very different in sun or shade here, but is still obviously 'June'. and it still looks great, when many or most are turning yellow. Not gold.

I do have some very pretty yellow seedlings from 'June' and hope they do well over the winter.
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