Pic of the Day--Elegans, or whatever

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Pic of the Day--Elegans, or whatever

Postby Hank Zumach » Mar 29, 2007 11:28 am

Hi All--The formal name for today's variety is sieboldiana 'Elegans', although few of us bother with the "sieboldiana" portion when discussing it. 'Elegans' is one of the true classics that should be in every collection. EXCEPT when it isn't really a classic but simply one of the latest batch of seedlings from a plant that looked a lot like 'Elegans' and produced a lot of similar looking offspring.

Which is what almost everyone has in their gardens. It seems that for about 100 years or so there has been a common practice to grow the seeds from the line of plants that started with 'Elegans' and call them all 'Elegans' even though there are small differences among the plants. Also, those tissue culture folks have been taking some of the culls from Great Expectations and Frances Williams and labeling them as Elegans. So, if you purchased a few plants at different times you will probably be able to notice small differences in their vein count or blossom color or form. In one sense, all this doesn't matter to most of us because an 'Elegans' by any other name would still be a very attractive, slug free plant.

I have several of these growing in our garden. (plus about 40-50 seedlings I started a number of years back). This particular plant was given to me way back in 1993 by a friend who didn't know what kind of plant it was; neither did I (this was before I ever heard the word "hosta") but I thought is was really attractive. So, this plant qualifies as the very beginning of my downfall into hostaholism. It has been growing in a spot that gets only dappled light. It had been slowly getting smaller for several years, I think because of encroaching tree roots that I eventually cut. Starting in 2001 it measured 62x28, 60x23, 47x21, 48x20, 60x24 and last summer it was fully recovered 65x26. Zilis lists it at 61x28.

Registry - http://www.hostaregistrar.org/detail.ph ... %27Elegans
MyHostas - http://myhostas.be/db/hostas/sieboldian ... Elegans%27
Hosta Library - http://www.hostalibrary.org/e/elegans.html

Elegans front 6-26-06c.jpg
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Pic of the Day--Elegans, or whatever

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Postby Tigger » Mar 29, 2007 11:32 am

Yeah, 'Elegans' is the one hosta cultivar that really should be considered a seed strain rather than a clone. I'd love to see a bunch of h. sieboldiana in the wild. At one point, we did have a green siebodiana; I guess someone was probably just culling out non-blue seedlings from 'Elegans!'
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Postby eastwood2007 » Mar 29, 2007 12:22 pm

that's a beautiful plant, hank!
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Postby renaldo75 » Mar 29, 2007 12:45 pm

Yours is a beauty, Hank!! :P

I'm curious about what I'm seeing at the left side of your pic today [and one was in the Gold Edger pic yesterday] - looks like a lime green 'flower'. Is it Lady's Mantle??
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Postby thy » Mar 29, 2007 3:26 pm

It was my very first hosta too or rather funkia: Got it at a road side sale in west Jutland May the 4. 1995. We we going to see a lazer show over the sea- most of it didn't work out as planned for the celebation of the 50 years day .

Have you ever divided it or moved it - doubt mine will ever be that big. i have moved it 2 times and cut out a piece once

Still is a top hosta :D

Great pics

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Postby Hank Zumach » Mar 29, 2007 4:15 pm

Renaldo--Those are the blossoms on a Rodgersia.

Pia--The plant has never been moved or divided.
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Postby thy » Mar 29, 2007 4:19 pm

Never think I will figure out how you can plant then the right place the first time :lol:
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Postby Roxanne » Mar 29, 2007 5:00 pm

Here's a pic of mine last June :P
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Elegans

Postby wzbt03 » Mar 29, 2007 7:21 pm

I agree, everyone should have a huge Elegans.

Nice picture Hank!
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Postby jgh » Mar 29, 2007 7:43 pm

Thanks for "telling it like it is" again, Hank. But haven't "they" decided that we aren't supposed to use the H. sieboldiana 'X' anymore? Zilis still used this naming convention, and applied it to Borwick Beauty,Frances Williams, Golden Sunburst, Dorothy Benedict, Northern Halo, Northern Mist, Northern Exposure, etc. But I thought the more recent ruling was that you don't include a species name in a cultivar name and we can just use 'Elegans' and 'Frances Williams'

I used to have a few really nice ones, from an original purchase back around 1980 - record keeping wasn't up to snuff back then, but I think Busse Gardens called it Elegans...

but then I divided them and moved them around and sold a group to someone landscaping an area... then the silver maple roots made the remaining plants dwindle... I'm not sure what will be out there this year.

I've got Big Daddy and Blue Mammoth and a couple more named ones, so I just call these oldie divisions "assorted big blue sieboldianas" Pic is from 2003
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Postby Hank Zumach » Mar 29, 2007 8:39 pm

JGH--I haven't tried to keep up with naming conventions, as well as some other stuff that I tend to think of as more technical. I'll take your word for it. :D I guess I think of myself as a hobbyist that got carried away but certain aspects of the whole thing are best left to botonists. I least that's what I tell myself. :lol:

Thanks for all the information filled postings. :cool: :cool:
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Postby jgh » Mar 30, 2007 2:35 pm

Well, Hank... you got me to wondering why I thought what I wrote, so I googled and found the an official-looking document on naming hostas:

www.hosta.org/About_Hosta/RulesfortheRe ... 060604.doc


which includes this as the final section on naming - and it makes us both right!

----------------------------------

Optional Rule: If former reclassified species have intraspecific names (former varieties or forms) that are unique names within the genus Hosta, they may be used as unique cultivar names without the inclusion of the former species epithet, as follows:
Hosta ?Fortunei Hyacinthina? may be written Hosta ?Hyacinthina? and H. ?Fortunei Aoki? may be shortened to H. ?Aoki? or H. sieboldiana ?Elegans? may be rendered as H. ?Elegans?. This is optional and either way the rendering of the name is correct.
However, if the former intraspecific names (varieties and forms) are not unique within the genus Hosta, they must always be used with inclusion of the former species epithet, as follows:
Hosta ?Fortunei Aureomarginata? must be written with inclusion of the former species epithet because several other species or former species have a yellow margined form, i.e. H. montana ?Aureomarginata? or H. ventricosa ?Aureomarginata?. Similar rules apply to ?Albomarginata? where several former species have this same cultivar name, i.e., H. ?Fortunei Albomarginata?, H. ?Undulata Albomarginata? and H. sieboldii ?Albomarginata?.
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Postby Hank Zumach » Mar 30, 2007 3:11 pm

Jim--I apparently didn't express myself very well. If you and I had a difference of opinion, I didn't realize it. :lol: I would (almost) always defer to your extensive knowledge on this kind of topic. :D
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Postby renaldo75 » Mar 30, 2007 3:24 pm

Thanks for the chuckle, Hank. :wink: And thanks for the plant ID. I'm not too familiar with it - just have heard the name.

And here I just moved the several 'Elegans' listed on my spreadsheet to the S section so they could be listed as sieboldiana 'Elegans'..... :???: And now Jim provides this information saying it's optional to do so in this case. :o Well at this particular point in time - I don't feel like moving them back. :roll:

**sigh**

:wink:
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Postby jgh » Mar 30, 2007 4:20 pm

Well, Reldon... now we know that you just chose one of the correct options...

but, of course, you'll want to be consistent... so you'll have to move Borwick Beauty,Frances Williams, Golden Sunburst, Dorothy Benedict, Northern Halo, Northern Mist, Northern Exposure, etc.
:wink: :) :D :lol:

Nope, Hank... I wasn't responding to a difference of opinion... but when you defer to my opinion, I get nervous... I USED to have an excellent memory, but nowadays I find myself being pretty certain about things, even if they aren't true! So I wanted to make sure I didn't get it wrong. In fact, I thought we were supposed to drop the species epithet... but now I learn it is optional. Well... the old memory was partially right!

Of course, then you had to get me started on Undulata! :lol:
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Postby renaldo75 » Mar 30, 2007 8:25 pm

I'm gonna draw the line at H. sieboldiana 'Elegans'. :wink: Besides - for some reason H. sieboldiana 'Frances Williams & H. sieboldiana 'Golden Sunburst' just doesn't do it for me. Not sure why. Guess I'm inconsistent with my nomenclature preferences..... :???: H. sieboldiana 'Elegans' I can handle.
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Postby Roxanne » Mar 30, 2007 9:23 pm

Agree! :P
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Re: Pic of the Day--Elegans, or whatever

Postby redcrx » Oct 07, 2012 1:14 pm

Elegans through the season.
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Re: Pic of the Day--Elegans, or whatever

Postby redcrx » Oct 07, 2012 1:34 pm

I cut-out a couple more shots.
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Re: Pic of the Day--Elegans, or whatever

Postby Phil_and_Gayle » Oct 08, 2012 8:38 am

As novice - my question is . . .

If H. sielboldiana Elegans was originally a cross between a sielboldiana and a tokudama, why is the sielboldiana heritage given more significance by being included in the name, instead of the tokudama?

Could this be similar to how I was given my father's last name (pollen parent) instead of my mother's (pod parent)? If so, why did they quit using that naming convention?
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